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My "wrap-up" on xPages, thoughts on the life and/or death of the Notes Client, and an update on YellowBubble.org
Category xpages yellowbubble
I think I've broken through the first glass floor on development with xpages. I call it the glass floor and not a glass ceiling because I feel I am to the point where I can development competently with xPages, and can do just about anything I could do with development of web apps in notes/domino before xPages. And because I am sure to have lots more to learn and tackle, I know I'll be able to do more than before (easier than before) soon enough. But I don't view it as an equivalent uphill climb to what I just went through to get to the level of comfort that i am with them now. I am excited about where this can take the development process for Notes/Domino.
In the coming days, I'm going to do a more full "wrap up" post withe a few of the hints tips and tricks I've learned during this time, and my overall thoughts on xPages, Domino Designer and xPages, and more .... stay tuned....
There has been a lot of talk lately about what all this 'xPages' stuff means for the client, and what the fate of the Notes client is. Along with the usual discussion of the health of the Lotus product line in general, etc etc.
First, Peter is right that the notes client is not going away just because of the advent of xPages. First, xPages is coming to the notes client, and that's just as important as xPages for the web is. Getting the ability to use newer, open technologies such as HTML/CSS/Javascript/XML/etc efficiently (yes i did just use bold, italics, AND underline to triple stress my point) in the client is a big deal. However, traditional Lotus Notes client development is going to be around for long time to come. I fear that is not only because of the absolute mountain of "legacy" code that exists, and the rate of adoption for the 8.5.1+ code streams (I'm guessing that 8.5/8.5.1 will continue to deploy faster than previous versions, just like 8.0/8.5 has) ... but its going to be mainly because the traditional Lotus Notes Developer hasn't ventured too far out of the domino comfort zone is going to push back. They are going to have a very very steep learning curve.
I really do see two camps developing, the xPagers, and the traditionalists to give them a name. Peter is absolutely right when he talks about the required skill sets for Lotus Domino Developers are changing. Just about everybody needs to get on board. Not because we're all yellow bleeders and we should tow the yellow line, but because your future as developers really depends on it. When xPages come to the client, and applications get updated/migrated/built/whatever, your inability to develop or maintain them is not going to be just a mark against you, its going to be THE mark against you.
If you don't have a firm grasp today on HTML/CSS/Javascript/DOM/XML - I say to you, start learning. Learn as much about those technologies as you can, in that order. The good news is you haven't been left behind ... yet. Sure you should have been learning and developing web applications already with Domino, but should have a lot of other developers out there, you can surf the wave of xPages rather then be trampled by it.
Traditionalists have had job security in a market where the uniqueness of the development process for Notes/Domino has been protective of the developers that learn it. Its a "relatively" easy place to develop,, and until now, it's been insulated from really having to learn new technologies, trends, etc. Add to that the fact that the XPagers will have both skill sets, and the fact that xPages could well be a key part of the puzzle that really starts to attract new developers, already familiar with HTML/CSS/Javascript/DOM/XML into the Lotus fold all adds up to the erosion of that job security.
I remember the stir that the introduction of LotusScript into Notes caused. I remember hearing (stupid silly) phrases like "We don't develop with LotusScript because its not going to stick around" ... It was really fear of the new and unknown, and the introduction of a "true" language into the product. That same sentiment is creeping up now, and its 100 times sillier. The writing is on the wall, and its time to read it, then tweet it, post it on facebook, and everywhere else ...
Well, ok i'm not ready to let the cat all the way out of the bag yet. But, what I can say is I am getting close to releasing the first of several planned phases to the site. I personally think this is something that we as a community seriously are in need of, and I'm pretty excited about it. In the next few weeks, I'll be looking for some volunteers to help me beta test this first phase to prep for launch. I'll be looking for a specific "type" of community members first, then needing volunteers from the rest of the community a little later. While I don't expect troves of volunteers without me telling you what the site is all about yet, if you're interested in participating in the "beta" leave a comment here (make sure to fill in your email address in the appropriate field so I can get back to you later with the details). Keep an eye here at my blog as well as I will release all the details about YellowBubble.org before the first beta round.
First, an update on me, and xPages (i am sure you are all excited!)
I think I've broken through the first glass floor on development with xpages. I call it the glass floor and not a glass ceiling because I feel I am to the point where I can development competently with xPages, and can do just about anything I could do with development of web apps in notes/domino before xPages. And because I am sure to have lots more to learn and tackle, I know I'll be able to do more than before (easier than before) soon enough. But I don't view it as an equivalent uphill climb to what I just went through to get to the level of comfort that i am with them now. I am excited about where this can take the development process for Notes/Domino.
In the coming days, I'm going to do a more full "wrap up" post withe a few of the hints tips and tricks I've learned during this time, and my overall thoughts on xPages, Domino Designer and xPages, and more .... stay tuned....
Now let's discuss the recent discussions on the Notes Client & it's future
There has been a lot of talk lately about what all this 'xPages' stuff means for the client, and what the fate of the Notes client is. Along with the usual discussion of the health of the Lotus product line in general, etc etc.
First, Peter is right that the notes client is not going away just because of the advent of xPages. First, xPages is coming to the notes client, and that's just as important as xPages for the web is. Getting the ability to use newer, open technologies such as HTML/CSS/Javascript/XML/etc efficiently (yes i did just use bold, italics, AND underline to triple stress my point) in the client is a big deal. However, traditional Lotus Notes client development is going to be around for long time to come. I fear that is not only because of the absolute mountain of "legacy" code that exists, and the rate of adoption for the 8.5.1+ code streams (I'm guessing that 8.5/8.5.1 will continue to deploy faster than previous versions, just like 8.0/8.5 has) ... but its going to be mainly because the traditional Lotus Notes Developer hasn't ventured too far out of the domino comfort zone is going to push back. They are going to have a very very steep learning curve.
I really do see two camps developing, the xPagers, and the traditionalists to give them a name. Peter is absolutely right when he talks about the required skill sets for Lotus Domino Developers are changing. Just about everybody needs to get on board. Not because we're all yellow bleeders and we should tow the yellow line, but because your future as developers really depends on it. When xPages come to the client, and applications get updated/migrated/built/whatever, your inability to develop or maintain them is not going to be just a mark against you, its going to be THE mark against you.
If you don't have a firm grasp today on HTML/CSS/Javascript/DOM/XML - I say to you, start learning. Learn as much about those technologies as you can, in that order. The good news is you haven't been left behind ... yet. Sure you should have been learning and developing web applications already with Domino, but should have a lot of other developers out there, you can surf the wave of xPages rather then be trampled by it.
Traditionalists have had job security in a market where the uniqueness of the development process for Notes/Domino has been protective of the developers that learn it. Its a "relatively" easy place to develop,, and until now, it's been insulated from really having to learn new technologies, trends, etc. Add to that the fact that the XPagers will have both skill sets, and the fact that xPages could well be a key part of the puzzle that really starts to attract new developers, already familiar with HTML/CSS/Javascript/DOM/XML into the Lotus fold all adds up to the erosion of that job security.
I remember the stir that the introduction of LotusScript into Notes caused. I remember hearing (stupid silly) phrases like "We don't develop with LotusScript because its not going to stick around" ... It was really fear of the new and unknown, and the introduction of a "true" language into the product. That same sentiment is creeping up now, and its 100 times sillier. The writing is on the wall, and its time to read it, then tweet it, post it on facebook, and everywhere else ...
Ok, the juicy stuff on YellowBubble
Well, ok i'm not ready to let the cat all the way out of the bag yet. But, what I can say is I am getting close to releasing the first of several planned phases to the site. I personally think this is something that we as a community seriously are in need of, and I'm pretty excited about it. In the next few weeks, I'll be looking for some volunteers to help me beta test this first phase to prep for launch. I'll be looking for a specific "type" of community members first, then needing volunteers from the rest of the community a little later. While I don't expect troves of volunteers without me telling you what the site is all about yet, if you're interested in participating in the "beta" leave a comment here (make sure to fill in your email address in the appropriate field so I can get back to you later with the details). Keep an eye here at my blog as well as I will release all the details about YellowBubble.org before the first beta round.
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Comments
Posted by Color wheel chart At 05:06:22 AM On 10/13/2011 | - Website - |
Posted by most fuel efficient cars 2012 At 09:21:31 AM On 10/01/2011 | - Website - |
Good luck with the good idea. Jerry.
Posted by Jerry Shelley At 10:26:40 AM On 07/27/2009 | - Website - |
As for IamLUG, there is no other large scale free event in the US, only paid so the interest is high at this point. I couldnt say why "Tom" didn't get an answer, but the reading of the blogs themselves is not done by most of the Lotus people we meet all over the world. The majority outside the bubble doesn't even know PL exists.
Posted by Chris Miller At 11:17:47 PM On 07/07/2009 | - Website - |
For something that Lotus spends exactly zero effort marketing, it seems like awareness of basic configuration is pretty high. I'm kind of curious about that.
Posted by Ed Brill At 07:04:20 AM On 07/07/2009 | - Website - |
Posted by Peter Presnell At 11:59:15 PM On 07/06/2009 | - Website - |
1) People who have stayed with Notes for 10+ years should not be considered as having stayed in their "hole". Are people with 10 years Java experience habitants of holes? If the environment works for them and they feel it has a future why change.
2) People may not be as interested in IAMLUG as you would like because we are in the middle of an economic crisis and many companies are cutting back on expenditure in areas like this. The US already has one major event each year. I believe attendance at LotusSphere was up this year suggesting there is still a whole lot of life in the Lotus community.
3) There are a lot of applications being developed using simple actions and @Language alone. These may not always be pretty but they are often very effective. How many platform still allow people to build applications as sophisticated as these without having to resort to a full programming language
3) You clearly might look down on us dinosaurs who still program in LotusScript but I will back myself developing a high quality application in a fraction of time using nothing more than Notes and LotusScript versus whatever superior platform you have now moved on to. I'll even offer to do it in Notes 6.0!
Posted by Peter Presnell At 11:56:23 PM On 07/06/2009 | - Website - |
What I did say was "If you don't have a firm grasp today on HTML/CSS/Javascript/DOM/XML" that your job maybe at risk in the future. Frankly those skills are important whether you are developing in notes or not.
Nor did i say that "there are still formula language/LotusScript dinosaurs blocking the proliferation of Lotus Domino applications in corporate America" ... I know there are developers that develop strictly Formula/LotusScript/Etc applications, and that don't venture out of that arena. But I don't see them as blocking the proliferation of domino apps. I do see them becoming antiquated skills at some point in the near future, and I am urging them to grow past it. That's all.
Posted by Jeremy Hodge At 11:00:01 AM On 07/06/2009 | - Website - |
1) You assume that corporate Notes developers have stayed in their hole building Notes Client applications for ten years. We haven't, we have probably switched to other systems and still support our legacy Notes apps. We've been using tools like Visual Studio or Eclipse for years... this xPages stuff is not "new" to us.
2) You assume there are still corporate developers developing on the Notes Platform. I did a shoutout on PlanetLotus to see if any corporate programmers wanted to get together and talk at IAMLUG (a Lotus user's group in the Midwest USA). Nobody responded. I know of one other company in my area of 1 million people that is currently doing corporate Notes development.
I think it's a little presumptuous to think that there are still formula language/LotusScript dinosaurs blocking the proliferation of Lotus Domino applications in corporate America.
I won't be doing xPages in the foreseeable future. We're on 8.02 basic. That's how we roll in the corporate world... we take what we're given.
Posted by tom At 10:23:10 AM On 07/06/2009 | - Website - |
Posted by Henning Heinz At 06:24:50 PM On 07/05/2009 | - Website - |
Of course there is no one mold that fits every situation. There will be organizations that stay at R7.x, there will be customer that migrate to the 8.x code stream, and choose not to utilize the new capabilities. But in the end, the developer will be better off embracing xPages, as those skills learned, as you said, can easily translate to other any web platform, something Domino is really only now coming into its own as.
Posted by Jeremy Hodge At 05:58:33 PM On 07/05/2009 | - Website - |
HTML/CSS/Javascript/DOM/XML is valid knowledge on almost any (web) platform.
Posted by Henning Heinz At 05:12:10 PM On 07/05/2009 | - Website - |